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Employment points confusion after EOI invite received.

Hemant Lalwani

Wanderer
Messages
21
Points
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Timeline missing
Hi There,

I started my application for Australia November and received the ACS report on the 7th Dec 2016. I have been working as a Senior Softeware Engineer since June 2010 till date. My education also stands relevant i.e. B.Tech (Information Technology). Below is the assessment details from ACS.


Your skills have been assessed to be suitable for migration under 261313 (Software Engineer) of the
ANZSCO Code.

Your qualification has been assessed as follows:

Your Bachelor of Technology (Information Technology) from Jawaharlal Nehru Technological

University completed May 2010 has been assessed as comparable to an AQF Bachelor Degree
with a major in computing.

The following employment after June 2012 is considered to equate to work at an appropriately skilled level and relevant to 261313 (Software Engineer) of the ANZSCO Code

Dates: 06/10 - 12/16 (6yrs 6mths)
Position: Senior Software Engineer
Employer: HSBC Software Development
Country: INDIA

I filed my EOI in the month of Dec 2016 and received my invitation for subclass 189 on 18th Jan 2017. I marked my complete experience from June 2010 till date as closely related to my nominaed occpation and hence got 10 points for employment.

Before I proceed further by paying the Visa fees, I wanted to be sure all details are correct.

My question is that is my claim to have 10 points for employment correct because the ACS report shows the relevant date as June 2012 and not June 2010.

Can you please advise If I should proceed with the application with the invite received? . Also, if I do will I face any complications at the next stage?
 

MysticRiver

Administrator
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My question is that is my claim to have 10 points for employment correct because the ACS report shows the relevant date as June 2012 and not June 2010.
Unfortunately No, you did a wrong claim. ACS deducted first 2 years for meeting suitability criteria, and you cannot claim points for that. You should have declared that part as non-relevant (no matter it was actually same job). So, your entire point claim was wrong.

Can you please advise If I should proceed with the application with the invite received? . Also, if I do will I face any complications at the next stage?
If I were you, I would definitely NOT pursue/proceed. One people claim here in the past that one of his friend got away with such claim, but it is clearly illegal and the rule is pretty clear. So you'll be in big trouble if DIBP noticed (which they should under normal circumstances). Rest is your decision.
 

Hemant Lalwani

Wanderer
Messages
21
Points
1
Timeline missing
Hmmm I see. I have a friend who has a similar case who was helping me with the application and he has already received his PR and is working in Australia. Hence the whole confusion.
I have filed for another EOI with a break up the job experience marking first two years as not relevant and years after that as relevant.

Do you want me share a screenshot of the EOI with a break up of experience? I would want to know if it has been updated properly and I can proceed further if I get the invite on the same.
 

MysticRiver

Administrator
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I have a friend who has a similar case who was helping me with the application and he has already received his PR and is working in Australia. Hence the whole confusion.
Yaa, like I told, another person here told me a similar story about his friend. But, I personally wouldn't do it. Not that it's only ethically wrong, it also poses a major risk in my opinion.

Do you want me share a screenshot of the EOI with a break up of experience? I would want to know if it has been updated properly and I can proceed further if I get the invite on the same.
Sure. Obfuscate any confidential and personal info like EOI no etc.
 

Hemant Lalwani

Wanderer
Messages
21
Points
1
Timeline missing
Thanks for the advise.

Attached in the post is my updated EOI where I've marked the same employment twice. Please check and confirm if this is fine?

Also, now I am claiming 5 points for employment against the earlier 10 which makes the total points as 60 for subclass 189. If it's not too much to ask, Can you please let me know any tentative dates for me to receive another invite? Thanks in advance.
 

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MysticRiver

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MysticRiver

Administrator
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We actually maintain the policy of asking immigration query on forum post only. The policy is in place mainly because, the question you want to ask surely will help other people in future. I can say from my experience, no matter how small the issue is, you will always find people having the same question. If you ask a thing in the chat window, that'd get lost with time. Moreover, it'll help increase the forum activity.

So, I really appreciate you ask any immigration related question in forum. We don't mind asking basic question, rather we encourage it. May be you can just open a new thread and list down all your question/confusion in a single page which would save your effort.

The chat window is basically about community building, getting to know each other, asking questions regarding individual timelines and distinct experiences (again, we appreciate you share experience in forums).
 

Hemant Lalwani

Wanderer
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Sure :)
I understand that. Will keep updating new queries via forum posts'. Thanks a lot

For now, my query is still relating to the same post. On what basis would the DIBP consider my claim on 65 points as incorrect and what kind of verification would be done?

I mean, I can get a letter from my employer and even payslips or any other document which can certify that I was on a Software Engineer role even before June 2012 as we didn't have any official traning period when I joined back in June 2010. I can arrange necessary documents during the verificaiton period If I can understand what steps would be involved.

Please understand that I don't mean to bother you much but I am failing to understand the point where the DIBP would miss one similar application and let it pass whereas mine could still get pointed out as incorrect. Shouldn't the verification of employment be standard for every applicant?
 

MysticRiver

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Don't worry, you can ask any question you want, nothing to be bothered. And your case worth asking lots of question.

Now let me come to the point. There is no argument that your experience from 2010-2012 is relevant to your skill. So the point you are making (of collecting proper documents etc.) is not really the issue. The issue is, as per ACS's criteria, you need to "spent" two years of relevant experience to meet the suitability criteria. Notice the word "relevant" here, ACS is not saying that 2 years was irrelevant, they just say you have to "spent" that part as a "cost" of being assessed. As a matter of fact, if it was irrelevant, ACS would deduct 4 years instead of 2. As a matter of fact, ACS deducts ONLY relevant experience. If you do not have enough relevant experience to deduct, you'll not meet suitability criteria and won't get positive assessment.

So, when DIBP says you should declare those 2 years non-relevant, it doesn't actually mean those experience itself is irrelevant, rather it means you cannot claim point for that part.

This rule itself is sort of unfair I must say, because several other authorities like Engineers Australia do not have such rule. For example, an Electrical Engineer can claim points for all his experience, as if there is no "cost" (in terms of experience) for assessment. But again, unfortunately, DIBP has clear ruling that, in case the assessing authority (i.e. ACS) has any specific ruling regarding experience count, DIBP will follow that ruling. For authorities that does not have such criteria (i.e. EA), DIBP will follow standard ANZSCO ruling.

Now, regarding that case where someone get away with claiming that extra experience, that is (if really happened) purely clerical mistake from DIBP, e.g. the CO failed his responsibility and missed the point. It had nothing to do with any fact that his experience was "more relevant" than yours. Technically, that is same as claiming extra experience for period when he was not employed.
 

Hemant Lalwani

Wanderer
Messages
21
Points
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Timeline missing
Ah I see. So basically I can claim points for employment only from the date ACS has mentioned in the below statement (in my case June 2012)

The following employment after June 2012 is considered to equate to work at an appropriately skilled level and relevant to 261313 (Software Engineer) of the ANZSCO Code.

Would the same criteria be applicable to any ICT occupation say ICT - Business Analyst or would it change with different skilled occupation. For Example, if the ACS report had the below statement

The following employment after January 2015 is considered to equate to work at an appropriately skilled level and relevant to 261111 (ICT Business Analyst) of the ANZSCO Code.

The applicant can only claim Employment points from Jan 2015 which would be ZERO as it comes to two years.

If the above is true, would you recommend I go through another assessment of skills by a different authority like Engineers Australia so that I can claim 10 points for Employment and not just 5?
 

MysticRiver

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Ah I see. So basically I can claim points for employment only from the date ACS has mentioned in the below statement (in my case June 2012)

The following employment after June 2012 is considered to equate to work at an appropriately skilled level and relevant to 261313 (Software Engineer) of the ANZSCO Code.
Correct.

Would the same criteria be applicable to any ICT occupation say ICT - Business Analyst or would it change with different skilled occupation.
Yes, it would be same as it is irrespective of which skill you are assessed to. This rule is specific to ACS, and any skill assessment done by ACS (for whatever skill) will suffer the same.

If the above is true, would you recommend I go through another assessment of skills by a different authority like Engineers Australia so that I can claim 10 points for Employment and not just 5?
Assessment authority is not really your choice. Every skill has specific assessment authority assigned. For example, and Electrical Engineer can't get assessed by ACS. So, if you want to get assessed by EA, you have to have your qualification/experience on the skills under EA, as listed in this page.

So, as your experience areas software engineer, I don't see how you can prove your experience is relevant to EA designated skills.
 

Hemant Lalwani

Wanderer
Messages
21
Points
1
Timeline missing
All right from the above I understand, the ACS is the only assessing authority for my nominated occupation. Hence going through another assessment is not needed.

However, I am a little confused about the exclusion of years from the total work experience. Please read the below assessment from ACS where the applicant has worked from April 2010 till date with multiple employers.

The following employment after January 2015 is considered to equate to work at an appropriately skilled level and relevant to 261111 (ICT Business Analyst) of the ANZSCO Code.

Dates: 04/10 - 04/12 (2yrs 0mths)
Position: Consultant - Business Analyst
Employer: Asian Chemicals
Country: INDIA

Dates: 01/13 - 10/15 (2yrs 9mths)
Position: Senior Business Analyst
Employer: IBM India Private Limited
Country: INDIA

Dates: 10/15 - 11/16 (1yrs 1mths)
Position: Consultant - Project Lead
Employer: CapGemini India
Country: INDIA

The following employment has been assessed as not suitable.
Dates: 04/12 - 01/13 (0yrs 0mths)
Position: Customer Service Representative - Not Professional ICT Level Experience
Employer: HSBC
Country: INDIA


I understand the exclusion of the employment from 04/12 to 01/13 with HSBC as it's not professional ICT Level Experience. However I don't understand why there isn't any remark for the employment from 04/10 to 04/12 with Asian Chemical as a Senior Business Analyst.

According to the total work experience which starts from 04/10 till date which is 6 yrs 9 months and taking the ACS reduction as two years for the skill ICS - Business Analyst, the skilled date mentioned should be from Jan 2013 instead of Jan 2015. Hence the applicant can mark the employment from 04/10 - 04/12 and the employment from 04/12 - 01/13 both as not relevant, but all further employments as relevant to the nominated skilled occupation.
 

MysticRiver

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Most likely his qualification was considered as ICT minor (yours were ICT major) which would require 4 years relevant experience deduction. His relevant experiences were
04/10 - 04/12 (2yrs 0mths)
01/13 - 10/15 (2yrs 9mths)
10/15 - 11/16 (1yrs 1mths)

So, if you calculate, his 4 years of relevant experience finished in January 2015, and that's why ACS ruled that he can claim points for experience after January 2015.

The deduction of experience can be 2-8 years depending on the level of qualification. I suggest you read through the following post carefully

https://www.migrationdesk.com/threads/acs-assessment-suitability-criteria-year-deduction-from-experience.41529/
 

Hemant Lalwani

Wanderer
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Timeline missing
I am afraid that isn't the case here. I have gone through the link earlier as well and hence had the question.

The education assessment for this applicant and mine stands the same but the universities differ. Both of us have got the same assessment as a AQF Bachelor Degree with a major in Computing. Below is the other applicant's educational assessment.

Your qualification has been assessed as follows:


Your Bachelor of Science from Dr. Bhimrao Ambedkar University completed March 2010 has been assessed as

comparable to an AQF Bachelor Degree with a major in computing.


Hope this helps.


 

MysticRiver

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Are you sure it was mentioned January 2015, not January 2013? Because that makes no sense, and I would ask for clarification from ACS in that case.
 

Hemant Lalwani

Wanderer
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21
Points
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Timeline missing
Yes, I am very sure it was mentioned January 2015 and not January 2013 as I copied the above text from the report itself.

I was planning to do the same and raise a question with ACS. However, could you advise the best way to put this query across and what are the chances they make an amendment to the report?.
Thanks for the help in advance.
 

MysticRiver

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You said that's not your report, so why and how do you plan to raise that to ACS? It should be raised by the person who owns the report.
 

MysticRiver

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Yaa, sure he should. If something is wrong, ACS will correct it (actually they have a formal review/challenge system in place, but I recommend to contact them informally first).
 
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