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Visa Subclass 189 - Employer won't provide experience letter

Roshan

Newbie
Messages
3
Points
1
Timeline missing
Hi,
I am a Computer Engineer from India with more than 6 years of experience. I have experience letter and everything required for my first 3 years of employment from my employer. After that I am working from India as a Senior software engineer with the company in Canada. I never received ANY document from them to prove I am their employee or even a freelancer. The only thing is I have is, I receive monthly salary from them. At the end of every month I send invoice to them and they make payment to my personal bank account. They don't provide me the payslips or such kind. I have asked them to provide me a letter of proof for my employment with them but they never promise to provide one.

Its now difficult for me to get my employment verified. What should I do?
 

MysticRiver

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
15,142
Points
113
First of all, I should remind you that you will not be able to claim points for first 2 years of your carrier as per ACS rule (provided that you have ICT major degree, otherwise they'll deduct more).

Then regarding your last 3 years of experience, DIBP wants your experience to be full time or min 40 hours per week in your relevant occupation field, to be eligible to claim points. Now with the monthly invoices and you bank statements, you might be able to prove your regular income, but it'll be very tough to prove your nature of work (just imagine how you can assure that your income was from any relevant occupation field, not from other source, say as an auditor in an accountancy firm).
 

Roshan

Newbie
Messages
3
Points
1
Timeline missing
Thank you for your quick response. I would like to know if it is possible to get skill assessed if my work colleague writes a recommendation letter or such kind. If yes, what type of document should I need from him? And are there any other supporting document that may help to get my skill assessed?
 

MysticRiver

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
15,142
Points
113
Thank you for your quick response. I would like to know if it is possible to get skill assessed if my work colleague writes a recommendation letter or such kind. If yes, what type of document should I need from him? And are there any other supporting document that may help to get my skill assessed?
I don't think a letter from a colleague will qualify. If you can manage a letter from your manager on company letterhead, it might work. However, the company contact address and phone numbers have to be present on the letter (ofcourse company letterhead will have those things). So, if they call your company and the company denies your employment, you will be in trouble.
 

MysticRiver

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
15,142
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113
Below is what ACS requires in case of self employment/freelancing. Read the last paragraph which should be applicable for you.

ACS said:
SELF EMPLOYED APPLICANTS
Self-employment is when you own or run your own business (or company) as an individual or in partnership. You may or may not employ staff. Self-employed applicants can submit a formal Self Statutory Declaration containing:
  • commencement and completion dates of your self-employment
  • the occupation of employment and the capacity in which self-employed
  • nature and content of the work you performed
  • number of staff employed and their occupations (if applicable).

Please include the following documentation:
  • business registration certificates covering each period of self-employment
  • a statement on a letterhead from your accountant or legal representative certifying the name and nature of your business
  • Statements from your clients with details of the work performed and dates. These statements should cover the entirety of the experience claimed.

Freelance experience is when you are a contractor or sole trader. In this circumstance applicants will need to provide statements from clients with details and dates of the work performed. These statements should cover the entirety of the experience claimed and include hours worked. The statements should be on the company letterhead of the business that employed your services.


In case of any further confusion or issue, best thing would be to contact ACS directly.
 

pieter

Wanderer
Messages
8
Points
1
Timeline missing
I am computer engineer from India and have experience (software development) since 2005.

1. I worked with few IT companies as developer and manager for appx 5 years.

2. Then, I worked as a freelancer or self-employed (no idea what is best word), without any business registration, for appx 3 years for US based clients and 1 local client.

3. Then, started my IT firm in partnership till date.

I have few questions:

Regarding point 2
Will my experience be counted? and which proofs i need to attach?
a. Clients can write a recommendation letter. What should be covered in that letter?

Worked as full time employee Or a software developer completed no. of hours (how many it should be) during a period?
Or software developer completed 20 (or 40 hours. No idea what should be) hours weekly.

I have bank statements and filed my ITRs too. Is anyone sufficient or need to show bank stmt and ITR both?

I worked for 1 local client too for appx 25 hours weekly (but was paid in CASH).. Can i show that too? Which docs are required for this too ?


Looking forward to a favorable response.
 

MysticRiver

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
15,142
Points
113
What should be covered in that letter?

Worked as full time employee Or a software developer completed no. of hours (how many it should be) during a period?
Or software developer completed 20 (or 40 hours. No idea what should be) hours weekly.
Check the ACS statement in my last post.
It should contain your responsibilities/work done.
It should mention how many hours per week you worked for (20 or 40, that depends on how many hours you actually worked, not the hours you should have worked, right?). Generally full time employment requires minimum 40 hours per week.

I have bank statements and filed my ITRs too. Is anyone sufficient or need to show bank stmt and ITR both?
It's always better to provide as much info as possible. Payslips and bank statements are popular means of support. So if you have bank statement, you should provide that as supportive document.
I worked for 1 local client too for appx 25 hours weekly (but was paid in CASH).. Can i show that too? Which docs are required for this too ?
I doubt it. There is no solid proof of that (anybody can forge those). But still, there might be a way to claim that. You should ask ACS directly.
 

pieter

Wanderer
Messages
8
Points
1
Timeline missing
Thanx for your prompt reply.
Regarding
It should contain your responsibilities/work done.
It should mention how many hours per week you worked for (20 or 40, that depends on how many hours you actually worked, not the hours you should have worked, right?). Generally full time employment requires minimum 40 hours per week.
k.

Actually, i worked full-time with client (but is it mandatory to get the no. of hours mentioned too)?
e.g. Assuming a period from 12-Jun-2010 to 20-Jul-2010
Which one is valid among the given below statements from client recommendation::
  • He worked with us as a software developer full time from 12-Jun-2010 to 20-Jul-2010.
  • He worked with us as a software developer from 12-Jun-2010 to 20-Jul-2010 and completed appx 100 hours.
  • He worked with us as a software developer from 12-Jun-2010 to 20-Jul-2010 and completed 20 or 40 hours weekly.
Also, so are these recommendations valid and fullfill the criteria of ACS and DIBP?
Also, I got payments from them continuously for months but skipped 1 to 2 months then again continuously and so on... Will DIBP accept this accept and consider it a full time experience?
Also, my major concern is that i worked as a freelancer for those overseas employees. Does ACS and DIBP consider freelancing experience? and what are chances of getting PR approved.

Regarding , I doubt it. There is no solid proof of that (anybody can forge those). But still, there might be a way to claim that. You should ask ACS directly.
I can try to get my experience and salary certificate (ie, monthly pay slips), both..? Will DIBP accept this and consider it a full time experience?

Major point is that as i worked genuinly for overseas clients and local client, but finding hurdles in the documentation process. I am not sure who i should approach.. (overseas clients or local client)? .. whose recommendation will be valid to prove/claim my experience?
 

MysticRiver

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
15,142
Points
113
If I were you, I'd try to collect as many documents as possible, both from the local and overseas clients. Then I'd sent all those documents to ACS and let them decide how many years of experience I can claim points for. If ACS result becomes unsatisfactory, I'd contact them for the reason and request for reassessment if I could bridge the gaps they'd mention.

Once ACS certifies your experience, it's most likely that DIBP is not going to question a lot regarding those. Even if they does, you have the valid point that ACS gave you a go.

Major point is that as i worked genuinely for overseas clients and local client
I understand you have genuine experiences. But the point is, there are hundreds of others who might just try to forge some experience, right? So, think yourself from ACS/DIBP's position. Why should they believe you and differentiate your claim from the forged claims? And then, try to gather documents which satisfies you.
 

pieter

Wanderer
Messages
8
Points
1
Timeline missing
Do ACS and DIBP consider freelancing experience (like odesk)?
As i have worked for no. of overseas clients,
1. if i get a recommendation from one client (to prove nature of work but for a certain period of time not entire i am claiming for)
2. attach Bank Stmt + ITRs of regular income,
3. a letter from accountant ie. CA (to prove nature of work for the entire period i am claiming for)
4. Self-declaration of my freelancing experience (to cover entire period and to prove nature of work)
5. Odesk timesheets (there may be some weeks not covering 20hours)

will ACS and DIBP consider?
 
Messages
141
Points
28
Timeline missing
Do ACS and DIBP consider freelancing experience (like odesk)?
As i have worked for no. of overseas clients,
1. if i get a recommendation from one client (to prove nature of work but for a certain period of time not entire i am claiming for)
2. attach Bank Stmt + ITRs of regular income,
3. a letter from accountant ie. CA (to prove nature of work for the entire period i am claiming for)
4. Self-declaration of my freelancing experience (to cover entire period and to prove nature of work)
5. Odesk timesheets (there may be some weeks not covering 20hours)

will ACS and DIBP consider?

Extracted from ACS guideline (https://www.acs.org.au/__data/asset...ills-Assessment-Guidelines-for-Applicants.pdf):
Freelance experience is when you are a contractor or sole trader. In this circumstance applicants will need to provide statements from clients with details and dates of the work performed. These statements should cover the entirety of the experience claimed and include hours worked. The statements should be on the company letterhead of the business that employed your services.

So, in short, they are likely to consider your freelancer experience.
 

pieter

Wanderer
Messages
8
Points
1
Timeline missing
Ok thanx a lot for providing this. However, i have already gone thru it.

Also, what if i my client's recommendation dont cover all years (only cover 2 yrs out of 3 yrs) ?
My bank statements includes transaction details like odesk.com, elance.com etc..
Can CO ask me to attach timesheets or those freelancing site's payment history or hours history?
Can CO ask for salary slips from my client? (which i dont have as it is several years back story)
Can CO ask for invoices sent( which i dont have as it is several years back story)
 

MysticRiver

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
15,142
Points
113
What CO will ask varies case to case. There is no common formula for that. Also if you failed to gather some documents they ask, you can explain the reason and they'll accept any valid cause.

Like I said before, try to assess whatever you get from ACS, if they assess, DIBP is not going to make a big fuss.
 

pieter

Wanderer
Messages
8
Points
1
Timeline missing
What CO will ask varies case to case. There is no common formula for that. Also if you failed to gather some documents they ask, you can explain the reason and they'll accept any valid cause.

Like I said before, try to assess whatever you get from ACS, if they assess, DIBP is not going to make a big fuss.

Thanx a lot for answering my questions constantly.
Is there noone (freelancers) in this world who has got thru such hurdles and got the PR approved ?
Can you help me find one?
 

Zuhaib

Newbie
Messages
1
Points
1
Timeline missing
hmm... Thanx for responding back.
Let me check some other forums to find a freelancer who can give me more guidance

Thanx a lot for your timely constructive responses.
Any luck bro? My case is exactly the same as yours hence I would really appreciate if you could please tell me what happened to your ACS assessment. Was your freelancing experience claimed by ACS, and what docs did you submit to them? Please let me know, I am really in need of this info. Thanks!
 
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